Re-entry waivers

[flyergp21]

Hi guys,

There is a situation going on about the re-entry waivers system, and I don't understand the dilemma.

Arizona put a player on waivers, he got claimed by St.Louis, no issue there.

How come some of you think St.Louis could get the player at 50% of the salary????

Re-entry waivers apply only when a player is sent to the minors (unclaimed through regular waivers) and then recalled to the NHL. That is when the player is subject to re-entry waivers, and when the team who gets the guy gets him at 50%, the other 50% being assumed by the original team.

How in the world can confusion come out of this???

[flyergp21]

BTW, why not get rid of re-entry, like in real life.

[Singin the BLUES]

Bub , Please respond to this as i am awaiting a to see what will happen here.

[TorontoGM]

St Louis is responsible for the entire contract.

[Singin the BLUES]

Even when i Pmed Bub and asked if i could claim him right now and get him at 50%?

[Jets GM]

I'm not sure what Bub has told you, but all Arizona did was waive Tiko. Re-entry waivers are for cases where a player is waiver eligible, demoted to the minors and clears waivers, and then is recalled. In that situation, on the way back up to his pro team he would be on re-entry waivers, and other teams would be able to claim him at 50% of his salary, with the other 50% the responsiblity of his former team.

If you claimed Tiko by mistake with the understanding he was at 50% of his salary, I see no reason why the claim can't be revoked. I will defer to Bub's judgement on how to handle the situation.

[Singin the BLUES]

and preseason is a whole different animal in regards to waivers, which is why i asked........and also, with the answer i got, it made me put in a claim.......

[Singin the BLUES]

Weird we havent heard from Bub yet on this....he has been online

I can see this isnt coming anytime soon.........

So the Blues are at a stand still until this is decided on.

[Singin the BLUES]

post edited above

[SharksGM]

You can't possibly have him on re-entry waivers, he was never sent to the AHL and never came back up. It makes no sense to stick Arizona with half of his salary.

Also the preseason is over and Pat said there are no waivers at all in the preseason so that's irrelevant.

[flyergp21]

There are no waivers if you wish to send down a player.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

Okay, guys, I've been away for too long and this is a problem of my creation. There is indeed no more re-entry waivers, so the 50% salary reduction for the claiming team is incorrect.

Jim, I was mistaken when I said you would get him at the reduced salary. I should have realized my mistake sooner and notified you about that. For cap reasons, if you want to revoke your waiver claim on Tikhonov, you will be allowed to do so, and Tikhonov will revert to being Arizona's property. Plus, since he makes over 1.5M, he cannot play on the farm.

[Singin the BLUES]

i dont want him

[TorontoGM]

Thanks for the clarification Pat

[AP21 (ARZ)]

Well, I don't want him either. I've lost some valuable time here to get under the salary cap in time for the start of the season, and I can't take Tikhonov back. I don't understand why Jim would think he could have him at 50 % in the first place, but everyone makes mistakes. Now, I don't want to pay for it. I wish we could reach some middle ground and release him outright.

I think this is a good time to reiterate that the rulebook needs to be updated. Several rule changes have been announced under various threads and left out of the PDF document. As we are bringing in new GMs to fill vacant positions, we need to have a clear and exhaustive rulebook. I am fairly new here, so I know how hard it is to find all the relevant information to get you started. I'll gladly volunteer if you guys need my help.

[Singin the BLUES]

What i dont understand is....how did you lose valuable time? Tikhonov would have had to have come back up to the NHL in a weeks time anyways......so you didnt lose nothing at all.....And IMO there isnt no middle ground and NO you shouldnt be able to release him outright without having him against your cap for 7 yrs.

[flyergp21]

I totally suport ARZ on this. He lost valuable time (3 days) thinking he had saved Tikhonov's salary and solved his cap issues. Now 24 hours before puck drop, he would have to take him back?

This is not his fault either, so I agree with his proposition, let's make Tikhonov a FA, and let's make sure we update the rulebook, so it doesn't happen again.

BTW, have a good season yall!!!

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

...Now 24 hours before puck drop,...

He has 48 hours before his puck drop, and had 72 hours when I posted yesterday. And, not to be too snarky here, but if you really want to help your brother out, YOU are 10 million under the salary cap.

Anyway, Alex, I've sent you a PM. There may be a simple way out of this.

[flyergp21]

Hey bub, I would help my brother, but business is business! I'm not taking him, not yet!

[Singin the BLUES]

LMFAo i STILL dont see how he is in trouble.........Tikhonov would STILL have to come back up........, i didnt get the claim......so he would be in the AHL now since it is only 18 hour waivers( or so the rulebook says....or does that need to be fixed also?)....so all is well with his cap....until re entry waivers......then see what happens

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

LMFAo i STILL dont see how he is in trouble.........Tikhonov would STILL have to come back up........, i didnt get the claim......so he would be in the AHL now since it is only 18 hour waivers( or so the rulebook says....or does that need to be fixed also?)....so all is well with his cap....until re entry waivers......then see what happens

There is no more re-entry waivers.

[Singin the BLUES]

When did this start>? I know it was being talked about BUT......

[Singin the BLUES]

And if there isnt any re entry waivers any longer.......how can a player making 2.7 mill per/7 yrs be waived? And with no one picking him up, wouldnt that then classify as a buy out then? Thats the way i understand it in the NHL

[Jets GM]

And if there isnt any re entry waivers any longer.......how can a player making 2.7 mill per/7 yrs be waived? And with no one picking him up, wouldnt that then classify as a buy out then? Thats the way i understand it in the NHL

Any player is eligible to be waived. If a GM wanted to place a player on waivers who was ineligible to play in the AHL, you would simply make a post in the "Waiver thread" that you are waiving "X player" like ARI did.

It would not classify as a buyout. If the player wasn't claimed he would simply stay on the original teams roster. However, if the GM posted in the thread "Waive player X, if not claimed, buyout" then the buyout process would begin if/when that player clears waivers.

Lots of GM's, including myself, have waived players with no intention of buying them out. I usually post those exact words if I am doing so "TB waives player X with no intention of buying out". It's useful if you need to cut salary, but there is no trade market for a guy you are wanting to move.

[Singin the BLUES]

I dont understand how it would cut salary if the player would still be on your payroll. You might be about to cut salary for a little bit (whatever the rule si 18 hours or a week..) But he still comes back on ur roster since you havent bought him out and no one claimed him.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

Waivers is a way for you to expose a player to everyone else at no cost to the other teams, except for taking on that player's salary. If no one claims him, you can then buy him out or just leave him on your team.

[Jets GM]

I dont understand how it would cut salary if the player would still be on your payroll. You might be about to cut salary for a little bit (whatever the rule si 18 hours or a week..) But he still comes back on ur roster since you havent bought him out and no one claimed him.

When I said cut salary, I meant that it COULD cut salary if the player is claimed by another team. When I waived Saku Koivu and he was claimed by COL, his entire salary was taken off my books and put onto COL.

Re-entry waivers were something we used before, and are no longer using. Some teams that got into cap trouble would temporarily demote players that would be ineligible to play in the AHL due to their salary. They could spend two weeks in the minors, before having to be recalled. When they were recalled, they were available to be claimed at 50% of their salary or on "re-entry waivers" with the original team being responsible for the other 50%.

We are no longer using re-entry waivers, please refer to the rulebook thread CGY has created for the official waiver rules this season.

[Singin the BLUES]

Ok so, the Tikhonov situation......nothing changed except for me taking back my claim then right? He is still on ARZ NHL payroll, 2.7 mill/7 yrs then right?

Just trying to make this clear

[flyergp21]

Exactly.

[Singin the BLUES]

Well, I don't want him either. I've lost some valuable time here to get under the salary cap in time for the start of the season, and I can't take Tikhonov back. I don't understand why Jim would think he could have him at 50 % in the first place, but everyone makes mistakes. Now, I don't want to pay for it. I wish we could reach some middle ground and release him outright.

I think this is a good time to reiterate that the rulebook needs to be updated. Several rule changes have been announced under various threads and left out of the PDF document. As we are bringing in new GMs to fill vacant positions, we need to have a clear and exhaustive rulebook. I am fairly new here, so I know how hard it is to find all the relevant information to get you started. I'll gladly volunteer if you guys need my help.

Well then why is the bolded are in this quote an issue?

[Jets GM]

Yes, he is still currently on ARI roster and ARI will have to find another way to get under the cap. We allowed Jim (STL) to revoke his claim since it was made under the pre-tense that it was at 50% of his salary. This was told to him by a staff member in error.

ARI issue was that he "lost" a few days to try and get under the cap since he thought STL had claimed him. However, he had Tiko on the block for a few weeks and the asking price had significantly dropped. STL was the only team to put in a claim, so he had to have know it was a possibility he would go unclaimed. Hopefully he can work out something before the season starts, and since he did lose some days I'm sure Bub wouldn't object to giving him some extra time to solve his cap issues.

[Singin the BLUES]

What i dont understand is...how did he lose a few days? He was on the block for weeks, he places him on waivers, that little screw up happened.....EHM hasnt been moved ahead in the calender at all.......so he is back at waivers again where it left off......am i not right?.....i dont reallly see the problem here at all.........You can tell he didnt or doesnt have an offer for him period or he wouldnt be trying to get a buyout from all of this.....

[Jets GM]

What i dont understand is...how did he lose a few days? He was on the block for weeks, he places him on waivers, that little screw up happened.....EHM hasnt been moved ahead in the calender at all.......so he is back at waivers again where it left off......am i not right?.....i dont reallly see the problem here at all.........You can tell he didnt or doesnt have an offer for him period or he wouldnt be trying to get a buyout from all of this.....

The days he was referring to was the time from when you claimed him to when it was revealed that the claim was made under the notion it was at 50% of his salary, which then caused then thread to balloon into over 30 posts.

STL claim was revoked, Tiko is on ARI roster. Waivers has been clarified for this season, and this thread is no longer relevant.

If anyone has any other questions about what happened, or about waivers, PM Bub or myself.