DET - TB

[Jets GM]

To Detroit: Taylor Beck (76), Johan Larsson (83) and Brian Rafalski (82)

To Tampa Bay: Antoine Vermette (61), Colton Teubert (82), 1st WPG 2013, 1st DET 2014 and 2nd DET 2013

[Jets GM]

Accept.

Reasoning: After the mental meltdown TB went through towards the All-Star break, measures had to be taken. I had hopes of contending next year, but the combination of not having a franchise tag and the final year of Jagr's buyout mean approximately 10 million dollars taken out of TB's payroll. Hard to contend when you've put yourself on a uneven playing field. I've decided that it's in the best interest of the team to go back into rebuild mode that we started two seasons ago.

Larsson and Beck are two incredible assets. However, they are both going to get paid this off-season. With Fowler and Seguin having expiring contracs, we'd be right up against the cap but still be a player or two away from being a legitimate top five contender. This deal delivers full value, and spreads the equity in the futures over two drafts to lower the risk. Rafalski gives DET added leadership and a quick consistent puck-mover for their Cup run. Teubert gives us a good number seven guy, Vermette was only included for salary reasons.

There is the risk I take in the leagues uncertain future, but I'm hopeful our core will always remain and Adam will continue to be the godfather of our family.

[jamesredwings]

here is the reasoning :

Beck looks like a sniper who can play with Richards (replacing Perry). Hoping his production moves from a pace of 14-15 goals to 20. He is only 21 years old. I like his hitting and his CON, his shooting skills are hot. J. Larsson has good POT but very interesting CON at 83. He would boost my 3rd line. Both are young, inexpensive and ready to fill in and bring more depth

Rafalski 4.6M expires this season giving me a chance to recruit a free agent preferably D if available for next year. Vermette's contract is off the books but I realize that getting him off comes with a price.

New lines = Lombardi now plays Center with Backstrom and Ovy while Umberger + Richards + Beck looks better without Perry

Instant improvement against future value, Teubert is a fine player but Ahnelov will fill his space in NHL soon. Projected late first rounders are given up and late 2nd rounder. They could be better than youngsters above but we are looking at making the playoffs for the first time in years.

Essentially Perry + 1st rounder+ 2nd rounder becomes Klesla+Umberger + Beck + Larsson + $$$ from Rafalski next year to resign Perry or some facsimili

[GM Office Q]

Hopefully Beck and Rafalski stayed in the same hotel.

[Virtual Jarmo]

Tommy and I had some preliminary discussions about this deal, but it needs more. I'm busy as hell with work tonight, so a ruling will have to be postponed until tomorrow.

Thanks for the understanding.

[jamesredwings]

No worries, we ourselves debated for a long time off and on. Not an easy one.

[CapsGM]

Beck looks like a sniper who can play with Richards (replacing Perry). Hoping his production moves from a pace of 14-15 goals to 20. He is only 21 years old. I like his hitting and his CON, his shooting skills are hot. J. Larsson has good POT but very interesting CON at 83. He would boost my 3rd line. Both are young, inexpensive and ready to fill in and bring more depth

[jamesredwings]

Beck looks like a sniper who can play with Richards (replacing Perry). Hoping his production moves from a pace of 14-15 goals to 20. He is only 21 years old. I like his hitting and his CON, his shooting skills are hot. J. Larsson has good POT but very interesting CON at 83. He would boost my 3rd line. Both are young, inexpensive and ready to fill in and bring more depth

And don't le me start on his shower skills!!!

Who's behind ovy? Dale Hunter?

[Virtual Jarmo]

After additional deliberation, this trade is approved.

Rationale: Clearly, on paper, this deal looks imbalanced. Beck is a two-trick pony (SH, HI) with good CON and room to develop. Although I have not begun the 2013 or 2014 draft class, it would seem plausible that a player like Beck could be a late first rounder. With low ceilings for stickhandling, checking, positioning, there is the hope that Beck will overdevelop in some areas and become a more well-rounded player. Time will tell, as will training techniques. For the purposes of trade evaluation, we'll say that Beck = a first round pick, either one, depending on where they both fall. Considering that Detroit is more of a question mark this season than Winnipeg, the fact that it's WPG's 1st this year and DET's 1st next year does take some value away from the pick.

The next step in this deal is Johan Larsson. Larsson, more or less, is what he is. With a POT boost, his 83 CON with 7 POT makes him a pretty good asset. In spite of a fairly low HI attribute, he is extremely disciplined, so he won't be a liability with penalties. To Tommy and I, a mid-range second, like DET 2nd '13, is pretty accurate value for Larsson. Add in Teubert, a depth defenseman, and those three assets line up in value.

The sticking point in this deal was Rafalski for Vermette + 1st. As I said above, the two firsts are somewhat interchangeable in value right now until we see what Detroit brings to the table in 2014. For now, we have to go on the assumption that Detroit will continue building a contender rather than rebuild. With the bottom of the Western Conference being weak, it's hard to see Detroit's pick falling in the top 15. Determining value here is where the trade got murky and where we needed to evaluate further.

Our opinion is that the 1st round pick is the cost for trading Vermette's cap space, the cost for adding additional cap space by trading two 1st round picks guaranteed to make a minimum of 1.5M each, a 2nd round pick that would probably make 1M, and the cost of exclusive negotiating rights to Rafalski. Shedding Vermette's 3.75M contract for the remaining two years is a big deal for a team that is up against it with the salary cap. Both Beck and Larsson are up for contract, but neither player projects to make a lot of money. Cap space is extremely valuable and Detroit is forced to pay a premium for it with the additional 1st round pick. If Rafalski is not re-signed, which will likely be the case, Detroit is in line to probably gain around 5M in present and future cap space.

There's also the value of "win now" vs. "win later". The future has some uncertainties, including potential rule and procedure changes regarding young players that may alter the value of some assets in this deal. Without getting in detail about them, they are in the deliberation phase and are not definite. Detroit has made the necessary transactions to manage his salary cap situation, while not destroying the competitiveness of his team and still keeping a focus on the playoffs.

For those reasons, we decided to accept this deal, although we do acknowledge that it is a borderline deal.

[Montreal Canadiens]

who the heck wants negotiating rights for the bum Rafalski?

How does Rafalski EQUAL Vermette and a 1st round pick???

That's setting a pretty shrewd standard for deals here.

If Rafalski is equal to a first round pick, how do we make any even deals. We're saying a bum 8th-9th dman who's nearing 40 and makes $4.6M is equivalent to a 1st round pick and just two paragraphs said a 21 year old 4th line F is 1st round pick value??

Kinda the tail of two opposites there.

P.S. - This deal puts Detroit over the cap, which shouldn't be allowed, but hey. Rules aren't for everyone.

[Penguin]

There shouldn't even be a TC for guys that have proved themselves and been in the league for some time, you win some, you lose some. Detroit obviously thinks he's got the team to win, let him prove it.

[Virtual Jarmo]

P.S. - This deal puts Detroit over the cap, which shouldn't be allowed, but hey. Rules aren't for everyone.

I have already discussed that with James, who has explained to me how he will get under the cap, which is of no consequence to you.

Let me give you a dose of reality, Brad. I don't fucking care about your opinion. I never have and I never will. I gave a sound, rational explanation of the trade and explained the way we broke the deal down. James did what he felt was best to improve his team, and, frankly, it was a lot better than taking Legwand's bad contract. I'm sorry that it kept you from solving your salary cap problem, which you put yourself in, and that your sour grapes and bad attitude about the entire thing have led you to refer to James as "retarded".

As I told you off the boards, if you don't like the way that things are being run around here, nobody is forcing you to stay. And, believe me, nobody would miss you if you left.

So, please, feel free to take your bullshit elsewhere, because I'm done dealing with it.

[Virtual Jarmo]

Trade entered.

[Jets GM]

First, this is another example of why people need to resist the urge to post in others trade threads. Nothing ever constructive comes from it, and more importantly you aggravate the one person who is the reason this league continues to run. Whether it's you being upset about getting a trade rejected or frustration over what you deem to be an imbalanced trade, your giving Mr. Burke another reason to stop providing us with this unique hockey universe. Ask yourself before you attack the league's decision making, is this REALLY worth jeopardizing the future of EHEC?

I've been guilty of this in the past. I was livid when the Kassian deal was rejected and without looking I probably have the most rejected trades out of any GM, but I've realized I care a great deal more about EHEC running as long as possible with the core we have then getting a trade pushed through that really helps my team. I would hope most GM's feel this way to. I think most of us, myself included, could do a better job in appreciating what we have here and doing a little extra to make Adam (and Tommy's) life easier. Donations to hosting, team articles, sending in proper and valid lines; we have creative people in this league, aside from Parker, I'm sure there is stuff I haven't even though of.

I won't even bother wasting time dissecting a deal that has already been approved, trades are subjective so everyone is going to have an opinion. Beck is going to have 99 shooting and his SK and StH get to 70+, that right there is a unique and valuable asset. There is a number of different way's to break down this deal depending on who you talk to, which of course should occur OUTSIDE the trades thread, not in it. I'm not opposed to being critical and questioning things (if not everything) in life, but be cognizant of the environment you choose to do it in. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

[SharksGM]

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

That's what she... fuck it you're gonna be a creepy old man one day.

[Montreal Canadiens]

I didn't want to put anything in here but I was requested to do so, so I did.

I was asking legit questions, which were ignored, but whatever.

I agree with you Matty, but we're not talking about 2 people who have "proven" themselves. One person, yeah.

P.S. - I could care less about moving Legwand, since A) I had no interest in Vermette so I was giving away Legwand for free and B) I'm now under the cap, so it really is a moot point.

[Virtual Jarmo]

I didn't want to put anything in here but I was requested to do so, so I did.

I was asking legit questions, which were ignored, but whatever.

You were requested to do so? Seriously?

Your "legit" questions were answered in my original explanation. Very clearly. Very rationally.


I would like to apologize to the league for the unprofessional appearance I gave off. As the face of EHEC, it is in the league's best interest that I remain professional and level-headed. I was speaking from a place of frustration, and I will leave it at that. Saying anything more would sound like I am making excuses.

However, that being said, I stand by my words and do not take any of them back. Perhaps posting in a public manner was the wrong way to go about things, but the things I said were not exaggerations, nor were they untrue.

[Virtual Jarmo]

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

That's what she... fuck it you're gonna be a creepy old man one day.

It's a movie reference from The Girl Next Door.

Underrated flick, btw.

[Montreal Canadiens]

We were speaking about the deal and you told me if I had issues to go post them.

I asked about the rationale behind Beck being worth a 1st round pick, then flipping around and saying Rafalski is also worth a first round pick. That wasn't answered at all.

I think your statements were pretty exaggerated, considering the lack of GM's. Not to toot my own horn but I would say I'm in the "upper echelon" for GM's, but if me stepping aside is something you honestly want me to do, then I can seriously consider doing that for you at the conclusion of my now upcoming 1 round playoff drive.

[Virtual Jarmo]

We were speaking about the deal and you told me if I had issues to go post them.

That's far from a request.

"Oh, Brad, if you could, please criticize every aspect of this trade that you aren't involved in to try and make Tommy and I look bad, insult our intelligence, and cause a scene."

Yep, I'd totally do that.

Beck will be 90+ in SH and HI with 76 CON, three of the most important attributes in the game. Along with developing stickhandling and skating above 70, making Beck a highly skilled player with a good number in the most important defensive attribute. Just because he's not an all-around 78/78 player doesn't mean that he's a "4th line F" as you called him. If I were to make a player like Beck in this year's draft class, I'd say there's an 80% chance he'd go in the 1st round.

I have already explained the Rafalski part, but allow me to do so again. We are looking at the Rafalski part as a means of salary relief for Detroit. Not to mention, Justin can't make that draft pick for the next 18 months. The price to unload Vermette's contract was to give up a 1st round pick. You couldn't even give Legwand away, so you should know how difficult it is to unload bad contracts. I can't trade Gonchar's contract for a 5th round pick. Now, if I put a 1st with it, somebody would take him, but I don't need to do that because I have a little bit of wiggle room. Detroit doesn't have that luxury.

Rafalski has value in the short-term. Theoretically, he could have value in the long-term as well, if Detroit wanted to keep him, but that'll be his decision. He has enough tools to still be a useful player for a short while until he really starts to vopatize at his age. He's better than some of Detroit's in-house options for a playoff run, and his goal was to get better for this season and this year's playoff. He accomplished that.

[CapsGM]

FYI here's a very similar trade that I made 3.5 years ago due to cap reasons. Probably the worst trade I've had to make, but it was the price I had to pay to get under. It shows how valuable cap relief is in this league.

~$4 million in cap space for a late first in a RIDICULOUS draft. We had no idea at the time 2010 would be so crazy, but we do know 2014 is going to be much more tame as Adam gains experience with his draft classes. And Beck and Larsson are ten times more valuable than Birkholz and Knight are.

[jamesredwings]

First, this is another example of why people need to resist the urge to post in others trade threads.

Maybe there should be another tread for discussing trades. Who wins , who lost type of thing. Not about why it was approved or not. Might boost participation.

In the real world, TSN and ESPN would talk about this for hours to say Detroit gave up too much.

That would be a good discussion as long as it's done properly. It might be a good way for me to learn about the software too.